Once again, a little thin.
1. Ron Santo
2. Aramis Ramirez
3. Stan Hack
4. Bill Madlock
5. Ron Cey
HM. Heinie Zimmerman
Full Version: All Time Best Cubs - Third Base
Luis Salazar
Vance Law
Gary Scott
Kevin Leonard Orie
Vance Law
Gary Scott
Kevin Leonard Orie
Steve Buechele
Gary Gaetti
Willie Greene
Dave Magadan
Todd Zeille
Gary Gaetti
Willie Greene
Dave Magadan
Todd Zeille
QUOTE (Andy @ Dec 29 2008, 09:32 AM) 
Steve Buechele
Gary Gaetti
Willie Greene
Dave Magadan
Todd Zeille
Gary Gaetti
Willie Greene
Dave Magadan
Todd Zeille
I actually have happy memories of all of the above except for Willie, I'm sad to say.
It's probably not as thin as it looks, because good 3rd baseman, in general, are rare. They are, by far, the least represented position in the HOF.
Stan Hack is a borderline HOF candidate: career .300 hitter, slick glove man, 5-time All-Star, got MVP votes in 8 seasons. His career OPS+ of 119 compares favorably with HOF 3rd basemen Brooks Robinson (104), Pie Traynor (107), Freddie Lindstrom (109), George Kell (111), and Jimmy Collins (113).
Santo is a freaking HOFer. It's a shame, really. Five-time Gold-glover, 125 OPS+ hitter...compare that to these other guys, it's laughable.
As for the Cubs, I do recall that between Santo and Aramis, we had about 35 different guys who tried to fill the position, didn't we?
One more name for ya: Harry Steinfeldt. The other guy in the Tinker-Evers-Chance infield.
Had there been an All-Star game in those days, he'd have likely been an AS...was in the NL top-ten in OPS a couple times, led the league in hits and RBI once, played in 4 World Series, had an MVP-calibre season when the Cubs won 116 games in 1906. Plus, he's the answer to a common trivia question!
Stan Hack is a borderline HOF candidate: career .300 hitter, slick glove man, 5-time All-Star, got MVP votes in 8 seasons. His career OPS+ of 119 compares favorably with HOF 3rd basemen Brooks Robinson (104), Pie Traynor (107), Freddie Lindstrom (109), George Kell (111), and Jimmy Collins (113).
Santo is a freaking HOFer. It's a shame, really. Five-time Gold-glover, 125 OPS+ hitter...compare that to these other guys, it's laughable.
As for the Cubs, I do recall that between Santo and Aramis, we had about 35 different guys who tried to fill the position, didn't we?
One more name for ya: Harry Steinfeldt. The other guy in the Tinker-Evers-Chance infield.
Had there been an All-Star game in those days, he'd have likely been an AS...was in the NL top-ten in OPS a couple times, led the league in hits and RBI once, played in 4 World Series, had an MVP-calibre season when the Cubs won 116 games in 1906. Plus, he's the answer to a common trivia question!
QUOTE (KBwsb @ Dec 29 2008, 09:43 AM)
It's probably not as thin as it looks, because good 3rd baseman, in general, are rare. They are, by far, the least represented position in the HOF.
Stan Hack is a borderline HOF candidate: career .300 hitter, slick glove man, 5-time All-Star, got MVP votes in 8 seasons. His career OPS+ of 119 compares favorably with HOF 3rd basemen Brooks Robinson (104), Pie Traynor (107), Freddie Lindstrom (109), George Kell (111), and Jimmy Collins (113).
Santo is a freaking HOFer. It's a shame, really. Five-time Gold-glover, 125 OPS+ hitter...compare that to these other guys, it's laughable.
As for the Cubs, I do recall that between Santo and Aramis, we had about 35 different guys who tried to fill the position, didn't we?
One more name for ya: Harry Steinfeldt. The other guy in the Tinker-Evers-Chance infield.
Had there been an All-Star game in those days, he'd have likely been an AS...was in the NL top-ten in OPS a couple times, led the league in hits and RBI once, played in 4 World Series, had an MVP-calibre season when the Cubs won 116 games in 1906. Plus, he's the answer to a common trivia question!
Stan Hack is a borderline HOF candidate: career .300 hitter, slick glove man, 5-time All-Star, got MVP votes in 8 seasons. His career OPS+ of 119 compares favorably with HOF 3rd basemen Brooks Robinson (104), Pie Traynor (107), Freddie Lindstrom (109), George Kell (111), and Jimmy Collins (113).
Santo is a freaking HOFer. It's a shame, really. Five-time Gold-glover, 125 OPS+ hitter...compare that to these other guys, it's laughable.
As for the Cubs, I do recall that between Santo and Aramis, we had about 35 different guys who tried to fill the position, didn't we?
One more name for ya: Harry Steinfeldt. The other guy in the Tinker-Evers-Chance infield.
Had there been an All-Star game in those days, he'd have likely been an AS...was in the NL top-ten in OPS a couple times, led the league in hits and RBI once, played in 4 World Series, had an MVP-calibre season when the Cubs won 116 games in 1906. Plus, he's the answer to a common trivia question!
harry steinfeldt was a much better player than tinkers, evers, or chance, but he didn't get a gay poem written about him so he doesn't get in the hall of fame.
anyhoo, based on what i've seen:
1. aramis ramirez
2. ron cey
3. ryne sandberg
4. vance law.
5. bill mueller
wow is that pathetic.
ryno was thirdbaseman his first full year, so he gets a nod.
vance law gets a vote becuase he made the all star team one year at third base.
i replaced keith moreland with bill mueller. tore up his leg making a great catch, went to boston the next year and won a batting title. typical.
QUOTE (KBwsb @ Dec 29 2008, 09:43 AM)
It's probably not as thin as it looks, because good 3rd baseman, in general, are rare. They are, by far, the least represented position in the HOF.
Stan Hack is a borderline HOF candidate: career .300 hitter, slick glove man, 5-time All-Star, got MVP votes in 8 seasons. His career OPS+ of 119 compares favorably with HOF 3rd basemen Brooks Robinson (104), Pie Traynor (107), Freddie Lindstrom (109), George Kell (111), and Jimmy Collins (113).
Santo is a freaking HOFer. It's a shame, really. Five-time Gold-glover, 125 OPS+ hitter...compare that to these other guys, it's laughable.
As for the Cubs, I do recall that between Santo and Aramis, we had about 35 different guys who tried to fill the position, didn't we?
One more name for ya: Harry Steinfeldt. The other guy in the Tinker-Evers-Chance infield.
Had there been an All-Star game in those days, he'd have likely been an AS...was in the NL top-ten in OPS a couple times, led the league in hits and RBI once, played in 4 World Series, had an MVP-calibre season when the Cubs won 116 games in 1906. Plus, he's the answer to a common trivia question!
Stan Hack is a borderline HOF candidate: career .300 hitter, slick glove man, 5-time All-Star, got MVP votes in 8 seasons. His career OPS+ of 119 compares favorably with HOF 3rd basemen Brooks Robinson (104), Pie Traynor (107), Freddie Lindstrom (109), George Kell (111), and Jimmy Collins (113).
Santo is a freaking HOFer. It's a shame, really. Five-time Gold-glover, 125 OPS+ hitter...compare that to these other guys, it's laughable.
As for the Cubs, I do recall that between Santo and Aramis, we had about 35 different guys who tried to fill the position, didn't we?
One more name for ya: Harry Steinfeldt. The other guy in the Tinker-Evers-Chance infield.
Had there been an All-Star game in those days, he'd have likely been an AS...was in the NL top-ten in OPS a couple times, led the league in hits and RBI once, played in 4 World Series, had an MVP-calibre season when the Cubs won 116 games in 1906. Plus, he's the answer to a common trivia question!
harry steinfeldt was a much better player than tinkers, evers, or chance, but he didn't get a gay poem written about him so he doesn't get in the hall of fame.
anyhoo, based on what i've seen:
1. aramis ramirez
2. ron cey
3. ryne sandberg
4. vnce law.
5. keith moreland
wow is that pathetic.
ryno was thirdbaseman his first full year, so he gets a nod.
vance law gets a vote becuase he made the all star team one year at third base.
keith moreland gets a vote because even though he was a brutal thirdbaseman and i think he only played there for a year, he did hit 27 home runs.
QUOTE
As for the Cubs, I do recall that between Santo and Aramis, we had about 35 different guys who tried to fill the position, didn't we?
Sadly it was very flavor of the month. Makes you appreciate a player like Aramis a lot more.
QUOTE (Nexus @ Dec 29 2008, 10:00 AM)
QUOTE
As for the Cubs, I do recall that between Santo and Aramis, we had about 35 different guys who tried to fill the position, didn't we?
Sadly it was very flavor of the month. Makes you appreciate a player like Aramis a lot more.
One of the many reasons that I was glad that Jim got him signed. And with a home-town discount, to boot!
Aramis has been a huge feather in Jim's cap...that still stands as the best trade of his tenure.
one of my favorites that I saw play was Bill Mueller. after he slide into that wall, he wasn't the same, but he seemed like a great guy. and played well for a bit.
Ron Coomer and Doug Strange 
QUOTE (Nexus @ Dec 29 2008, 10:00 AM)
Sadly it was very flavor of the month. Makes you appreciate a player like Aramis a lot more.
I have never been as wrong in my assessment of a player as I was with Aramis. Not even close.
QUOTE (Mikey @ Dec 29 2008, 10:29 AM)
one of my favorites that I saw play was Bill Mueller. after he slide into that wall, he wasn't the same, but he seemed like a great guy. and played well for a bit.
bill mueller. good call. i will amend my list.
QUOTE (Mikey @ Dec 29 2008, 10:29 AM)
one of my favorites that I saw play was Bill Mueller. after he slide into that wall, he wasn't the same, but he seemed like a great guy. and played well for a bit.
I always liked him. He was ripping the ball until that happened.
Kevin Orie didn't make it? You guys forgetting his solid gold glove?
kein orie's only claim to fame will be fucking up kerry woods perfect game. oh, and being slightly better than gary scott.
QUOTE (Destined @ Dec 29 2008, 12:05 PM)
Kevin Orie didn't make it? You guys forgetting his solid gold glove?
Look 10 or so posts above yours, chief.
QUOTE (veryzer @ Dec 29 2008, 12:01 PM)
QUOTE (Mikey @ Dec 29 2008, 10:29 AM)
one of my favorites that I saw play was Bill Mueller. after he slide into that wall, he wasn't the same, but he seemed like a great guy. and played well for a bit.
bill mueller. good call. i will amend my list.
Was Manny Alexander a 3B?
I hated that guy
I hated that guy
QUOTE (CFOrfan @ Dec 29 2008, 08:11 PM)
Was Manny Alexander a 3B?
I hated that guy
I hated that guy
Sosa's steroid handler? I think played some games there.
Mark Bellhorn
QUOTE (Dingo @ Dec 29 2008, 10:16 PM)
Mark Bellhorn
He mostly played 2nd base.
QUOTE (Mikey @ Dec 29 2008, 10:26 PM)
QUOTE (Dingo @ Dec 29 2008, 10:16 PM)
Mark Bellhorn
He mostly played 2nd base.
78 games at 3rd base, 77 at 2nd base. Remember the Cubs thought he could be a full-time starter at 3rd after his 02 season, and he played 42 games for us in 03, all at 3rd. Then we traded for Aramis mid-season after Bellhorn stunk.
Oh how I love me some Mark Bellhorn.
QUOTE (Clapp @ Dec 29 2008, 10:32 PM)
QUOTE (Mikey @ Dec 29 2008, 10:26 PM)
QUOTE (Dingo @ Dec 29 2008, 10:16 PM)
Mark Bellhorn
He mostly played 2nd base.
78 games at 3rd base, 77 at 2nd base. Remember the Cubs thought he could be a full-time starter at 3rd after his 02 season, and he played 42 games for us in 03, all at 3rd. Then we traded for Aramis mid-season after Bellhorn stunk.
I try to block that out of my memory.
I believe Mark Bellhorn has a World Series ring. And he played the majority of last year right here in Louisville for the Reds AAA team.
i had considered mark hellborn but i conidered him more of a jack of all trades type of player.
I considered him a track of all jades.
He only had one decent year here, and I hated Bellhorn.
I wrote this informative (ha), little ditty for ITI prior to the 2003 season:
He got added to the list. But he was the last one to be added. So that has to be of some solitude to him.
QUOTE
Is It Finally Bellhorn's Bag?
Mark Bellhorn has the dubious title of Chicago Cubs starting third baseman. Now on most teams, it would mean very little to have a new third baseman, but on the Cubs it carries a bit of a stigma. Anyone who's been a Cubs fan for any period of time can name off at least a dozen players who have manned the hot corner over the years. Unfortunately, most of the players named also have the distinction of being incredibly bad.
Now the next question is, "Is Mark Bellhorn going to change everything Cubs fans know about 3B?" Your nay Sayers will tell you that Jim Hendry is making a big mistake by not picking up Mike Lowell, Joe Randa, or Shea Hillenbrand. Some fans are still upset the Cubs never made a serious run at Scott Rolen last year. These fans usually point to Bellhorn's propensity toward striking out (144K in 445 at-bats) or his brain-farts defensively. They fear we're putting a 'super-sub' out to play as a starter.
On the other side of the coin, sits the ever-optimistic Bellhorn-supporters. They'll happily point out that Mr. Bellhorn, at least offensively, kicked some serious tail last year. His on-base percentage was 2nd highest in the Major Leagues trailing only Edgardo Alfonzo for every day third basemen. His slugging percentage would have had him only trailing Eric Chavez. If his total at bats were anywhere near those of the league leaders, he would easily have had the highest homerun total among second and third basemen. Of course, these supporters also ballyhoo his defensive follies.
How the fateful question of whether Mark Bellhorn will be just another pathetic Cubs third basemen or if he will break the 30-year drought ultimately falls into the hands of Mark Bellhorn himself. So if he succeeds, Ron Santo can finally relinquish the position. And if he fails, you'll be able to add Mark Bellhorn to the growing list of names that all good Cubs fans can recite.
Mark Bellhorn has the dubious title of Chicago Cubs starting third baseman. Now on most teams, it would mean very little to have a new third baseman, but on the Cubs it carries a bit of a stigma. Anyone who's been a Cubs fan for any period of time can name off at least a dozen players who have manned the hot corner over the years. Unfortunately, most of the players named also have the distinction of being incredibly bad.
Now the next question is, "Is Mark Bellhorn going to change everything Cubs fans know about 3B?" Your nay Sayers will tell you that Jim Hendry is making a big mistake by not picking up Mike Lowell, Joe Randa, or Shea Hillenbrand. Some fans are still upset the Cubs never made a serious run at Scott Rolen last year. These fans usually point to Bellhorn's propensity toward striking out (144K in 445 at-bats) or his brain-farts defensively. They fear we're putting a 'super-sub' out to play as a starter.
On the other side of the coin, sits the ever-optimistic Bellhorn-supporters. They'll happily point out that Mr. Bellhorn, at least offensively, kicked some serious tail last year. His on-base percentage was 2nd highest in the Major Leagues trailing only Edgardo Alfonzo for every day third basemen. His slugging percentage would have had him only trailing Eric Chavez. If his total at bats were anywhere near those of the league leaders, he would easily have had the highest homerun total among second and third basemen. Of course, these supporters also ballyhoo his defensive follies.
How the fateful question of whether Mark Bellhorn will be just another pathetic Cubs third basemen or if he will break the 30-year drought ultimately falls into the hands of Mark Bellhorn himself. So if he succeeds, Ron Santo can finally relinquish the position. And if he fails, you'll be able to add Mark Bellhorn to the growing list of names that all good Cubs fans can recite.
He got added to the list. But he was the last one to be added. So that has to be of some solitude to him.
Wow, Joe Randa and Shea Hillenbrand. We were really shooting for the moon in those days.
Just reading that thing from Andy makes me all the more appreciative that we have Aramis locked up to a long-term deal, and he's still in his 20's.
By the time that Aramis is done, he will be #1 on the list.
QUOTE (savant @ Dec 30 2008, 01:33 PM)
By the time that Aramis is done, he will be #1 on the list.
hall of fame?
QUOTE (veryzer @ Dec 30 2008, 03:44 PM)
QUOTE (savant @ Dec 30 2008, 01:33 PM)
By the time that Aramis is done, he will be #1 on the list.
hall of fame?
i'd be surprised if Aramis was a HOFer. His numbers will compare well historically, but his current day competition will be A-Rod and David Wright,
QUOTE (Coldneck @ Dec 30 2008, 02:49 PM)
QUOTE (veryzer @ Dec 30 2008, 03:44 PM)
QUOTE (savant @ Dec 30 2008, 01:33 PM)
By the time that Aramis is done, he will be #1 on the list.
hall of fame?
i'd be surprised if Aramis was a HOFer. His numbers will compare well historically, but his current day competition will be A-Rod and David Wright,
well, i think a-rod is gonna be remembered as a shortstop more than third, and though wright is better, he isn't significantly better.
QUOTE (Coldneck @ Dec 30 2008, 12:49 PM)
QUOTE (veryzer @ Dec 30 2008, 03:44 PM)
QUOTE (savant @ Dec 30 2008, 01:33 PM)
By the time that Aramis is done, he will be #1 on the list.
hall of fame?
i'd be surprised if Aramis was a HOFer. His numbers will compare well historically, but his current day competition will be A-Rod and David Wright,
Exactly, and he lacks a true career year. He's capable of 40/120 every year but falls well short, and he'd new a few of those for Cooperstown. The Hank Aaron Award won't cut it.
QUOTE (veryzer @ Dec 30 2008, 03:51 PM)
QUOTE (Coldneck @ Dec 30 2008, 02:49 PM)
QUOTE (veryzer @ Dec 30 2008, 03:44 PM)
QUOTE (savant @ Dec 30 2008, 01:33 PM)
By the time that Aramis is done, he will be #1 on the list.
hall of fame?
i'd be surprised if Aramis was a HOFer. His numbers will compare well historically, but his current day competition will be A-Rod and David Wright,
well, i think a-rod is gonna be remembered as a shortstop more than third, and though wright is better, he isn't significantly better.
You may be right about A-Rod, but if he plays until he is 40, and remains at 3b, he will have played twice as many games at 3B than at SS. I forgot to include Miguel Cabrera and Chipper Jones. Miggy may be moved to the OF at some point, but Chipper has had a much better career.
He will be 30 in June, he has 1400 hits, 249 homers, and is just shy of 900 RBI. Since putting on the Cubs uniform he has been right at a .300 hitter with a .900 ops and consistently driving in 100 plus runs a year. So, I think with 5 or six more years he has a very good chance to be a hall of famer.
QUOTE (savant @ Dec 30 2008, 12:57 PM)
He will be 30 in June, he has 1400 hits, 249 homers, and is just shy of 900 RBI. Since putting on the Cubs uniform he has been right at a .300 hitter with a .900 ops and consistently driving in 100 plus runs a year. So, I think with 5 or six more years he has a very good chance to be a hall of famer.
He's gonna have similar numbers to Santo, but he has more competition. Chipper Jones is a perfect example, he's a shoe-in compared to Rami. Right now Aramis' numbers are comparable to Glaus, and he's definitely not in HOF.
Here are some lists from Baseball Prospectus regarding Ramirez.
Most Similar Batters:
1. Mike Lowell
2. Soriano
3. Eric Chavez
4. Javy Lopez
5. Adrian Beltre
6. Geoff Jenkins
7. Danny Tartabull
8. Wally Berger???
9. Mike Sweeney
10. Jorge Posada
Similar Batter through Age 30
1. Scott Rolen
2. Eric Chavez
3. Greg Luzinski
4. Shawn Green
5. Gary Sheffield
6. Carlos Lee
7. Carlos Beltran
8. Dale Murphy
9. Rudy York
10. Chipper Jones
The second list makes me think he could make the HOF if he finishes his career with some big years. The first makes me think he is facing a huge uphill battle to make it. The only ones on that list that have a shot at the HOF are catchers (I guess Soriano has an outside chance).
Most Similar Batters:
1. Mike Lowell
2. Soriano
3. Eric Chavez
4. Javy Lopez
5. Adrian Beltre
6. Geoff Jenkins
7. Danny Tartabull
8. Wally Berger???
9. Mike Sweeney
10. Jorge Posada
Similar Batter through Age 30
1. Scott Rolen
2. Eric Chavez
3. Greg Luzinski
4. Shawn Green
5. Gary Sheffield
6. Carlos Lee
7. Carlos Beltran
8. Dale Murphy
9. Rudy York
10. Chipper Jones
The second list makes me think he could make the HOF if he finishes his career with some big years. The first makes me think he is facing a huge uphill battle to make it. The only ones on that list that have a shot at the HOF are catchers (I guess Soriano has an outside chance).
QUOTE (Coldneck @ Dec 30 2008, 01:02 PM)
Here are some lists from Baseball Prospectus regarding Ramirez.
Most Similar Batters:
1. Mike Lowell
2. Soriano
3. Eric Chavez
4. Javy Lopez
5. Adrian Beltre
6. Geoff Jenkins
7. Danny Tartabull
8. Wally Berger???
9. Mike Sweeney
10. Jorge Posada
Similar Batter through Age 30
1. Scott Rolen
2. Eric Chavez
3. Greg Luzinski
4. Shawn Green
5. Gary Sheffield
6. Carlos Lee
7. Carlos Beltran
8. Dale Murphy
9. Rudy York
10. Chipper Jones
The second list makes me think he could make the HOF if he finishes his career with some big years. The first makes me think he is facing a huge uphill battle to make it. The only ones on that list that have a shot at the HOF are catchers (I guess Soriano has an outside chance).
Most Similar Batters:
1. Mike Lowell
2. Soriano
3. Eric Chavez
4. Javy Lopez
5. Adrian Beltre
6. Geoff Jenkins
7. Danny Tartabull
8. Wally Berger???
9. Mike Sweeney
10. Jorge Posada
Similar Batter through Age 30
1. Scott Rolen
2. Eric Chavez
3. Greg Luzinski
4. Shawn Green
5. Gary Sheffield
6. Carlos Lee
7. Carlos Beltran
8. Dale Murphy
9. Rudy York
10. Chipper Jones
The second list makes me think he could make the HOF if he finishes his career with some big years. The first makes me think he is facing a huge uphill battle to make it. The only ones on that list that have a shot at the HOF are catchers (I guess Soriano has an outside chance).
Rolen and Lowell are good comparisons. He's got the career numbers of Rolen and Lowell's career years are like Rami's standards.
The only problem is this: those lists are based strictly on offensive numbers. Lowell, and especially Rolen, are known for being outstanding glove men.
OTOH, Aramis is amazingly consistent, and doesn't possess the injury bug that has plagued Lowell and Rolen, so perhaps he'll be able to one day compile large enough numbers to be a HOF candidate.
OTOH, Aramis is amazingly consistent, and doesn't possess the injury bug that has plagued Lowell and Rolen, so perhaps he'll be able to one day compile large enough numbers to be a HOF candidate.
QUOTE (Coldneck @ Dec 30 2008, 06:58 AM)
I believe Mark Bellhorn has a World Series ring. And he played the majority of last year right here in Louisville for the Reds AAA team.
Red Sox fans love him. He had big homers in games 6 and 7 of the 2004 ALCS, and the game-winner(I believe) in game 1 of the World Series against the Tards.
3 syllables... Ron Santo. It just pisses me off that year after year the HOF just doesn't recognize him as what he is.. a Hall of Fame Third Baseman
QUOTE (Ronsantorocks @ Jan 2 2009, 10:08 PM)
3 syllables... Ron Santo. It just pisses me off that year after year the HOF just doesn't recognize him as what he is.. a Hall of Fame Third Baseman
Blame it on the veteran's committee!
QUOTE (Ronsantorocks @ Jan 2 2009, 10:08 PM)
3 syllables... Ron Santo. It just pisses me off that year after year the HOF just doesn't recognize him as what he is.. a Hall of Fame Third Baseman
I was thinking more like Ron Coomer.
QUOTE (HTC @ Jan 5 2009, 01:58 PM)
QUOTE (Ronsantorocks @ Jan 2 2009, 10:08 PM)
3 syllables... Ron Santo. It just pisses me off that year after year the HOF just doesn't recognize him as what he is.. a Hall of Fame Third Baseman
I was thinking more like Ron Coomer.
willie greene
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